Wednesday, June 28, 2006

Todd Friel vs The Infidel Guy

I've just finished listening to one of the Infidel Guy's podcasts. A couple of months back the Infidel Guy was on 'Way of the master radio' - a fundamentalist Christian radio station - and was (for lack of a better word) interviewed by Todd Friel (I blogged about it, why not read what I said?). So IG had Todd on his radio show, attempting to turn the tables and find out a bit about this guy.

From the outset, the 'Christian' wanted to pick a fight with the 'infidel'. He was arrogant, rude, didn't answer questions put to him, was antagonistic, didn't actually listen to half of what the show host said, and so on. Once again I am ashamed to be nominally 'on the same side' as this guy.

I'm a Christian, but I don't think it is rational to say that if someone has lived a perfect life in all respects, except for one lie told when they were 6, that they deserve eternal torment. I don't think that a native American, before the time of Columbus, who has never heard the gospel will be judged guilty because he has rejected Jesus. But Todd Friel seems to think that makes perfect sense. I would go as far as to say that it appears that Todd Friel rejoices in the belief that many people will go to hell. The man has no grace! Thankfully his God does have it, even if Todd doesn't understand what it means.

So Reggie, if you're reading this, on behalf of all reasonable Christians, sorry.

A Christian (as I understand it) is someone who seeks to be like Christ, to follow his example and live according to his teachings. If you look at Jesus in the bible, you will find that the only people he got into fights and arguments with were the hypocritical religious leaders. He did not fight with those with other beliefs, but it appears like he entertained them with stories and chatted with them over a meal (in their homes) and was generally nice and courteous to them.

On the basis of that show I would guess that if Jesus was here to talk to IG or TF, he would have a good natured chat with the infidel and would only get into heated debate with Todd!

18 Comments:

At 6:07 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have to ask you, what part of the bible verse "all liers will have their place in the lake of fire" does not make sense to you. Yes, telling one lie makes you a lier as one murder makes you a murderer.

 
At 10:56 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can you possibly say you are a follower of Jesus (which is what a christian is) say:

"I'm a Christian, but I don't think it is rational to say that if someone has lived a perfect life in all respects, except for one lie told when they were 6, that they deserve eternal torment."

Then tell me, why did Jesus die? Why is it that when the disciples whitnessed Jesus' power to calm the sea they were absolutely terrified and felt unworthy to be in his presence? Because he is HOLY. Look up the word HOLY. Let's say that a person only sinned ONCE in their lifetime (which I know would be retarded because there's nobody out there like that)... he would just be comparing himself to others and what... he's better than everyone else and DESERVES heaven?! No! Only God deserves heaven! He's GOD! He MADE heaven! He's PERFECT! PURE! HOLY! Are you going to tell me that you or someone you know is perfect pure and holy? If so, I'd like to meet them. There's is not a soul on earth that deserves heaven.

Do you remember when the man ran up to Jesus and said, "Good Master! What must I do to inherit eternal life?!". Jesus said "Why do you call me good? There's is NO ONE good except for ONE"... read the rest of the verse yourself.

So wait a second... if there's "no one good except for one, then that means Jesus is saying we're NOT good, and how can someone who is NOT good deserve heaven? Then why would God himself, come to earth in the form of Jesus Christ, die on a cross to pay that PENALTY for us? BECAUSE WE'RE NOT WORTHY OF GOD'S EVERLASTING GOODNESS! He knew that, and he did something about it. PERIOD.

Now let go of your pride, get down on your knees, and be greatful for what God did for you and stop thinking that there are people out there that deserve to be in God's holyness!

 
At 4:47 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

no one has lived a perfect life in any respect let alon all respects and if you think that then you are not a Christian nor do you understand Christianity. The arrogance of man in thinking that his so-called goodness can atone with a holy God is just one reason why you are mistaken and should call yourself a humanist as opposed to a Christian. God has every right to say who is to be joined with Him and who is to be separated from him. He also has the right and power to set the rules for such joining.

 
At 2:42 pm, Blogger Ricky Carvel said...

There are so many things I want to say in response to the above three comments, but I am holding my tongue.

Have these people never heard of grace?

And all the sectarian problems in the world begin when one Christian looks at another Christian and says I disagree with you, therefore you are not a Christian...

 
At 8:59 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All of the world's problems began when Adam and Eve broke God's law...that is what sin is, the breaking of God's law. I don't mean to sound condescending, but there are no levels or measures of sin, the bible says that our very best is as dirty rags, that is why His grace is through His sacrifice which He provided Himself...Read your bible every day and do what it says...

 
At 12:15 pm, Blogger Jad said...

Ricky I agree with you in saying that on behalf of all reasonable Christians, sorry. I listened to this interview almost twice last night and I am shocked.

It appears Todd Friel is more interested in being right, or not being wrong, than he is in sharing Jesus Christ with this Infidel Guy. When the Infidel Guy brought him up on his rudeness he didn't apologize he just didn't say anything. And when he finally did respond after large pauses in the conversation he was nothing but smart-alecky.

I felt like logging into the forums at RationalResponders.com to apologize straight away after listening to it.

 
At 11:56 am, Blogger tracifish said...

Why do you think Todd Friel rejoices that people are going to hell? I don't get that impression at all.

 
At 1:57 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ricky:
I do agree that Grace (that IS my middle name, so I DO know alot about it) is a MAJOR part of the Christian life. Grace is, however, not the word you're looking for. You are looking for MERCY. Mercy for that one little lie that you told when you were six that looks really big on your white Elvis suit. Mercy for that one time when you were 14 that you wished you had your friend's girlfriend. Mercy for that one time when you hated your parents more than anything else. THAT'S the word you're looking for, and trust me, it makes a BIG difference. And, in order for either Grace or Mercy to be used, the person DOES have to say they're sorry. Anyhow, I hope I helped clear things up.

 
At 6:24 pm, Anonymous D.C. A Newly Reborn Bond Servent of Jesus Christ of the Bible said...

"There are so many things I want to say in response to the above three comments, but I am holding my tongue.

Have these people never heard of grace?

And all the sectarian problems in the world begin when one Christian looks at another Christian and says I disagree with you, therefore you are not a Christian..."

Though this is late a year or so, I felt required to respond.

It is good that you held your tongue but I must remind you of the Beatitudes in Matt 5 about murder and anger.

The word grace most often refers to something good given to us that we don't deserve.

However the word mercy (something completely different) most often refers to something bad we deserve not being given to us.

What you are thinking of seems to be closer to the later.

The problem you seem to have from what i see is not "I disagree with you, therefore you are not a Christian" is it is more like the "bible states otherwise therefore you are not a Christian"

PLEASE hear me out, I read how you yourself said that you "didn't actually listen to half of what the show host said, and so on" before coming up with an opinion of Todd.

I hope you will not do the same to the word of God when taken into correct context.
Please read the following
James 2:10
Romans 3:23-24
1 John 3:4-5

Though these are single verses i suggest reading the passages around it to gain a better understanding of the verses.

As a Christian you cannot deny the validity of the Bible as God's word and commandment. If you do I fear for you and will pray for you.

But before i leave you I would like to point out another issue I saw.

"He did not fight with those with other beliefs, but it appears like he 'entertained' them with stories and chatted with them over a meal (in their homes) and was generally nice and courteous to them."

Jesus did not tell stories for entertainment. He told 'stories' full of truth and lessons for believers. The 'stories' (I rather call them parables or lessons) were often answers for disputes and questions among his followers. Such as when the parable of the sower teaching the difficulties of evangelism and the parable of the wise and foolish virgins as a warning for us to be ready for his coming.

I will give you this, Jesus was compassionate in his way of speaking as he told his parables. For the lessons with in them were meant for his followers.

Just in the same way I am approaching you with deep passion for you as a fellow brother in Christ. 2 Timothy 3:16 (The reason I am doing this).



P.S. Sorry about the length of my rambling but I am sure that as a fellow Christian you must understand the feeling of passion for Jesus.
2 more things i feel might be wise to take note of in future disputes.

1.) Be Cautions when declaring others to be not in the grace of God. Especially without solid biblical backing. Since it is God who in the end decides who truly has received his salvation, it is not us to be the Judge the validity of others faith. Romans 14:8-12

However i feel it is our responsibility to present the possibility of false teachers with a solid biblical backing to prevent others from following(scripture that isn't taken out of context, many so called men of god have do so through out history)

2.)Be careful whom Jesus is to you. Is this the Jesus of the Mormons, the Muslims, or a Jesus of your very own. We can never be too careful when checking whom Jesus is in accordance to the bible(our only 100% accurate source).

I pray that you will not just brush this off but give it deep though and pray about what I've pointed out. This is not my opinion but what I've seen in the bible verses i listed.

 
At 11:42 pm, Blogger Ricky Carvel said...

Hi D.C.A. Newly Reborn...

Don't worry about commenting so late. I'm kind of used to it by now. ;o)

Thanks for the reminder about Matt 5, but I wasn't harbouring any thoughts of anger or murder, I was just following Paul's advice to the Ephesians about only letting wholesome words out of my mouth.

Thanks to you and the other poster who point out the difference between mercy and grace. I do know the difference, but I was thinking of the verse in Colossians 4:6 which urges us to be 'full of grace' in our conversations. Todd Friel did not exhibit any grace. He didn't exhibit any mercy either. Even if the 'infidel' had not been deserving of courtesy and politeness from Todd, I think - as a Christian - he should have been gracious and treated the other with respect.

You misquote me. It was not me who didn't listen to the host, it was Todd who completely ignored several of the things that the Infidel Guy said.

Thanks for pointing out those verses. If you read what I said, I wasn't claiming that someone who has only ever committed a minor sin isn't a sinner. I was questioning the 'deserves eternal torment' aspect of it. Justice is only justice if things are fair.

Regarding your two final comments:

1: I didn't judge Todd as being not in the Grace of God. I jusded him as not having the grace of Todd - he did not demonstrate the love of his Lord in anything he said or did. But I cannot question his salvation. I just think he is misguided.

2: I am only a simple person. I will never know even 1% of all of God and will never get even a sizable understanding of Jesus. He is far greater than I will ever comprehend. Therefore it means more to me who I am to Jesus - will he say to me 'well done, good and faithful servant' or 'I never knew you'.

But nowhere in the bible is it ever claimed that the bible is "100% accurate" even 2 Tim 3 only goes as far as to say that it is "useful for training in righteousness". Useful? That all?

 
At 6:55 am, Anonymous John said...

The opinion of Friel, and those of similar ilk, clearly demonstrate how ambiguous the entire Bible is. The so called "message" of Jesus is so vague and uncertain that no two people seem to be able to formulate a single coherent interpretation of the text.

IMO, the native American comment simply demonstrates how utterly absurd the entire Christian religion is. Even after 2,000 years the vast majority of people on this planet are non-Christian. This suggests that billions of people are now in hell simply because the Europeans failed to conquer their country.

Do we seriously think that a supreme being that could "create" the spiral galaxy and the sunflower would be such a capricious twat? Certainly such a being would have the foresight to wait around for the internet, or even the printing press, so that his message for humanity would be easily available to all.

The entire religion looks exactly as it would if no supreme interventionist being was behind it. It is obviously just another religion created by primitive man to explain the universe we inhabit.

 
At 5:21 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We've all done quite a job of being ambassadors of Christ to the world. Why do we spend so much of our time arguing amongst ourselves for the entire world to see? There may be a place for these conversations among believers, but not for the entertainment of those who do not believe. What John and others like him need to see and hear from us is the evidence of God's Holiness and Grace in the actions of His people. Our place is in that battle is on our knees!

Whatever we take out of this blog, we must remember, GOD IS HOLY!! He cannot have anything else in his presence! Without Christ, we are hopelessly lost and stuck in our own sin, but by His Grace He makes us holy when we choose to follow Him.

We are servants who don't deserve anything but eternal separation from Him, but to whom He chooses to give His love, His mercy, His forgiveness, and His grace. We need to be reflections of Him to the world, starting with each other. After all, IT IS ALL ABOUT HIM!!

Does Christ need us to defend Him?

 
At 4:10 am, Blogger khal994 said...

Hey,

I was just wondering why you think Todd Friel has no grace. You just say that he condemns people and don't explain why he has no grace.

My question is:
If we don't know we've sinned and are going to hell, how are we going to know we need a Savior and that we need to trust and repent?

The Bible (Galatians 3:24) says, "So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[a] that we might be justified by faith."

What is grace without hearing what we deserve?

 
At 2:53 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the anonymous person who asked the look up of Holy... its simply means different. There is nothing jaw dropping or awe inspiring about the word Holy... So if Jesus was Holy, they wheres simply saying he was different from what was considered the norm.

 
At 7:46 pm, Blogger Paul said...

Rom 3:12 there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Psalm 14:3 there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God

Matthew 7:21-23
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Many will even have the appearance of salvation in Christ as in Matt 7:22 but Jesus will declare judgment on them telling them to depart.

Todd Friel has no joy in anyone going to hell. He is good at what God has called him to do, which is to evangelize as Jesus did and preach repentance and Hell.

I recommend go to www.alwaysbeready.com and equip yourself with a little more knowledge through study of the scripture

We live in a Postmodern world which literally means people believe (including the emergent church) that no one can be certain of what truth is.

This flies in the face of the gospel of Jesus Christ who says the truth is in Him alone, that He alone is the truth the way and the life and that no one will enter heaven except through Him.

Love you brothers and sisters

 
At 8:45 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow Todd Friel, his rating just went into the toliet with me. I called on the frre for all Friday
and thought I would get maybe alittle consideration with my thought.
I waited 10 min to get on and was off in less in a minute. He belittled my topic and cut me off.
If it was not for Lori and Larry
morning show. I would trash my Sirrus Radio. If you want the full
story email me at roddy51@verizon.net also visit us on the web at www.gladerunchurch.com
Thank you for listening Rod Miller
from Ohio
Todd should remember we are not a Cruiseship going to Heaven, We are more like a Battleship at the gates of hell trying to keep poeple
out. Now I think that is Grace.

 
At 2:25 am, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I dont think people understand fully where Todd is Coming from. The problem "the Church" is seeing today is "watered down gospel", or "what gifts do I get if i am a Christian". First of all, It isn't about US. It is about Him.We are here to give GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST. None of us are "good enough" or can ever "do" enough to see the face of God. That is why Christ came in the first place. The greatest thing about God IS His Holiness. How PERFECT He is. He is so Good, and Perfect, that one little "bad thing" like a person that "made one mistake" isnt worthy of being in Heaven. Christ died to cleanse us from that..Todd is just trying to establish "just HOW HOLY God is", and "what HOLY REALLY MEANS". Also, he is reminding us what the gospel is REALLY about, and why we are even here in the first place....GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST!

 
At 6:16 am, Blogger Ricky Carvel said...

I am closing comments on this blog posting.

I don't like the way the 'Way of the Master' guys do things. They seem to base their entire evangelistic technique (i.e. where they GO to people and tell them the BAD NEWS before they tell them the GOOD NEWS) on the way Jesus behaved when someone (the 'rich young ruler') CAME TO HIM with a question.

There is no suggestion in the gospels that Jesus went bible thumping when he entertained tax collectors and prostitutes.

And when he called the disciples, his lifestyle itself was sufficiently radical that when he simply said "follow me" to people, they did.

Live a visibly radical life, treat sinners with respect and draw them in - THAT is the 'way of the master'...

 

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